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Thread: Rebuild or swap?

  1. #1
    Member Serious divemaster5734's Avatar
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    Default Rebuild or swap?

    Howdy.
    First, I have worked on hot rod gas engines, and have only changed the oil and glow plugs on my diesel.
    So that means I am at the BDC of the "learning curve".
    Have a '89 7.3, and the top end is gone.
    My question, would a full engine rebuild be better than a DIT swap?
    I have an acquaintance that claims with a cam, turbo tweak, banks performance injectors and turbo rebuild kit he can get me 800 hp. He also claims to know the tranny and rear end tweaks that will handle the power.
    I would rather keep the IDI if those numbers are even close to realistic, I don't need to pull a house down or drag train cars, so don't care about 1000+ hp.
    Anyone out there familiar enough with diesels to tell me if this guy knows what he is talking about?
    Thank you in advance.
    Brian
    "Happy are those that dream dreams, and are ready to pay the price to make them come true"
    John F. Kennedy

  2. #2
    Senior Member Sucked In sheepman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rebuild or swap?

    A IDI engine can't handle 800 hp, because the blocks are to thin. 325hp flywheel is a lot for a idi to make and stay reliable. They can do more but not by much. Your engine stock is 180hp, add the turbo up to 50% more power. So the turbo could add 90 more HP at peak. Plus fuel injection you could see a extra 110 HP +/- total. So 325hp at fly wheel becomes not to hard to do. Now where talking diesels and not gassers. So let talk torque. Stock your engine would make 360tq with turbo, fuel injection, and LP gas. You could see a total TQ of 430 +/- flywheel.

    The Powerstroke 7.3L can do 800+ hp but that will cost you about 10k to get to. A Powerstroke is very easy to make power from but the cost of mods goes hand in hand.


    So what kinda power are you looking for?

    To me it sounds like the guy can talk, but i don't think if he can put his money where his mouth is. What would make me run away fast is "Bank Performance injectors". Banks doesn't do injectors.
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  3. #3
    Mr. Fix it Sucked In Traveler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rebuild or swap?

    I have to 2nd the sheepman. We wanted to put an idi in our 1986 but cannot live with 250hp and we felt that is about all it can safely, dependably make and count on working hard for 200k.
    We will be going with the powerstroke.

  4. #4
    upgrading... $5 at a time Sucked In Clydesdale's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rebuild or swap?

    Divemaster,

    You talking to a kid named Justin? Goes by NMB2, or grey_b2wheeler?

  5. #5
    upgrading... $5 at a time Sucked In Clydesdale's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rebuild or swap?

    NMB2 can get you to PSD numbers, reliably.

    Jump on PowerStrokeNation and look for his IDI build.. he is in the neighborhood of 300/700 at the wheels, IIRC

    Edit: he corrected me, 375/700.

    The two are dang near neighbors.

  6. #6
    Mr. Fix it Sucked In Traveler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rebuild or swap?

    Are you talking about this thread?

    http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/...opped+nbm2+idi

    Gotta admire the guy for taking all the heat and for trying what he wants. I would love to see him succeed and can't wait for the dyno numbers.
    I do question how long the engine will last or how dependable it will be. It might be as dependable just no way to know yet.
    The reservations I have already are from the failures he has already had.
    The IP has failed already, it is a hybrid, not something you can get fixed at just any diesel shop.
    The cracked intake, as much welding as they are doing no way of knowing if it will hold yet or what changes they will need to make to get it to hold.
    The freeze plug that popped out, are we sure it was just an installation error?
    The head gasket, makes sense that it was a piston in backwards but the engine has not even been loaded hard yet, has it even ran 1,000 miles yet without breaking?

    A lot of people with a lot of knowledge have told him over and over that it is not possible, but I hope that just motivates him more to complete it and make it work. I am sure many of those nah sayers have never put as much work into actually trying it and making it work as he has. They are just puking up what they read somewhere.

    I hope he does it and I hope it is dependable, but for me it will take 10 other guys doing it and running it a couple years before I would make the investment on the build and then trust it on a loaded trip to Alaska or anywhere remote. (which is why I would want it, might be different for others)

  7. #7
    upgrading... $5 at a time Sucked In Clydesdale's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rebuild or swap?

    Yeah that thread.

    I see your points, and I have those doubts in my head. He has logical and thought out points of rebuttal every time (we IM on yahoo regularly) I touch on those points. I hope for his sake, he gets it dialed in, and it is all that he wants and then some. Both on an output level standpoint, and overall longevity.

  8. #8
    Mr. Fix it Sucked In Traveler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rebuild or swap?

    I hope he does it too, I love it how everyone is so set against him and he is doing it anyway no matter what the outcome will be.
    He sounds like he has thought it through, but there are some proven problems running that much boost long term.

  9. #9
    Member Serious divemaster5734's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rebuild or swap?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale View Post
    Divemaster,

    You talking to a kid named Justin? Goes by NMB2, or grey_b2wheeler?
    Actually, his name is Jamie, claims his bro has a custom truck shop in SO CA, but his mouth is always moving so fast I think his brain has trouble catching up.

    I really don't need a lot of extra HP, a little torque would be nice, but I want it reliable first, I dont want to have to open it up for another 250k.
    "Happy are those that dream dreams, and are ready to pay the price to make them come true"
    John F. Kennedy

  10. #10
    Member Serious divemaster5734's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rebuild or swap?

    Quote Originally Posted by sheepman View Post
    A IDI engine can't handle 800 hp, because the blocks are to thin. 325hp flywheel is a lot for a idi to make and stay reliable. They can do more but not by much. Your engine stock is 180hp, add the turbo up to 50% more power. So the turbo could add 90 more HP at peak. Plus fuel injection you could see a extra 110 HP +/- total. So 325hp at fly wheel becomes not to hard to do. Now where talking diesels and not gassers. So let talk torque. Stock your engine would make 360tq with turbo, fuel injection, and LP gas. You could see a total TQ of 430 +/- flywheel.

    The Powerstroke 7.3L can do 800+ hp but that will cost you about 10k to get to. A Powerstroke is very easy to make power from but the cost of mods goes hand in hand.


    So what kinda power are you looking for?

    To me it sounds like the guy can talk, but i don't think if he can put his money where his mouth is. What would make me run away fast is "Bank Performance injectors". Banks doesn't do injectors.


    Thank you.

    I was ready to hire him, but then he talked himself right out of the job when he just couldn't stop throwing random HP and TQ numbers out.
    When he claimed to be able to rebuild a stock injector pump to high output with an off the shelf
    rebuild kit I decided to find someone else to help.
    "Happy are those that dream dreams, and are ready to pay the price to make them come true"
    John F. Kennedy

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Rebuild or swap?

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    Are you talking about this thread?

    http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/...opped+nbm2+idi

    Gotta admire the guy for taking all the heat and for trying what he wants. I would love to see him succeed and can't wait for the dyno numbers.
    I do question how long the engine will last or how dependable it will be. It might be as dependable just no way to know yet.
    The reservations I have already are from the failures he has already had.
    The IP has failed already, it is a hybrid, not something you can get fixed at just any diesel shop.
    Actually, any stanadyne shop can fix it. All of the custom parts are hard parts. I just have no reason to have any other shop work on it other than DPS, service is free since I am R&Ding a new pump. IP failure was caused by air ingestion.

    The cracked intake, as much welding as they are doing no way of knowing if it will hold yet or what changes they will need to make to get it to hold.

    Intake cracked because RacinNdrummin didn't jig the intake up when he built the first one. We knew the intake was twisted up but hoped that the engine heat cycling would relieve residual stress. Obviously not the case. My second intake I built is not on the truck and fit beautifully. No warpage

    The freeze plug that popped out, are we sure it was just an installation error?

    100% certain that it was installation error. Racin' had never installed this style plug before, and he was unaware that you had to pound a dimple into the center of it to expand the plug into the block edge. The first plug came out when the head gasket blew, directly into the rear water jacket. This is common among all boosted engines when they blow HG's

    The head gasket, makes sense that it was a piston in backwards but the engine has not even been loaded hard yet, has it even ran 1,000 miles yet without breaking?

    Engine has ran about 2,000 miles so far, all hard miles.

    A lot of people with a lot of knowledge have told him over and over that it is not possible, but I hope that just motivates him more to complete it and make it work. I am sure many of those nah sayers have never put as much work into actually trying it and making it work as he has. They are just puking up what they read somewhere.

    Finally, somebody else gets it.

    I hope he does it and I hope it is dependable, but for me it will take 10 other guys doing it and running it a couple years before I would make the investment on the build and then trust it on a loaded trip to Alaska or anywhere remote. (which is why I would want it, might be different for others)
    I just wanted to sign up here as I felt compelled to answer your questions. Truck will be up and running today.

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