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natterre
04-06-2015, 06:29 PM
I am starting a project to replace an IDI with a power stroke. Also in the swap will be to replace the E4OD with the ZF5. So far I have removed a donor engine from the donor vehicle. Next is to rebuild the engine and prep it for installation. In a couple months I will have a 7.3 IDI available if anyone is looking for one. I know these conversions can be tricky so I am taking another vehicle to ensure I will have all the parts I need for the conversion.

68Mercury250Ranger
04-06-2015, 09:25 PM
rebuilding a 7.3 powerstroke? whats wrong with it? did you do a compression test on tit before you pulled it?

natterre
04-06-2015, 09:44 PM
No compression test, but there was water running out the exhaust pipe. That's why the guy (previous owner)parked it. It has been parked for 5 years. I pulled it and carbon deposits came out with the coolant. I will pull the heads and determine the cause of the problem, fix it, and then reassemble it. While it is out I will also change the oil pump, glow plugs, water pump and all gaskets too. I will probably change the main oil seals as well. All of the hard to get to items. Taking a piece of machinery and just letting it sit is one of the worst things you can do to it. This engine had 150k on it when parked.

IsaLandr
04-07-2015, 06:56 PM
Speaking as the owner of a 1991 7.3IDI/E4OD to 1994.5 7.3PSD/ZF5-42 conversion C350, I can tell you the swap is a complicated one. The engine and transmission, and the underhood wiring, were all done before we got the truck. I had to finish the inside wiring and put the dash, steering column, seats, and internal wiring all back together. And then troubleshoot the things that were wrong with the underhood wiring. It's still not done, but it's been on the road now since the end of December, 2014, and going strong.

While you have it apart, if it hasn't been done already, take this opportunity to ditch the OEM dual mass flywheel, install a single mass flywheel and upgraded clutch.

Since yours is already a 1992, I'm assuming you don't have to go through the conversion process of upgrading the steering and dash, correct?

natterre
04-07-2015, 07:51 PM
The steering column and dash should be ok to stay. As for the dual mass flywheel it has already been changed to a single mass, but is missing some teeth, so it should be replaced. The donor vehicle is a 1997 F-250 2WD. Same body style so all of the wiring and computer should be straight forward. Since it is a 2WD, I will need to go through the transmission and rebuild it and configure it to accept the transfer case on the back. The 1992 is a manual shift 4WD, so that will stay and should hook up seamlessly (hopefully). This week I will pull the heads off the engine and see what damage was done (and how extensive the repairs will be). I am hoping for minor repairs due to the milage on it. It will be a fun journey what ever the outcome.

Polarburg
04-08-2015, 05:35 AM
Did you have it running in the donor ? I like 68 question why a ps should need a rebuild at 150k unless it had straight water in coolant system and froze . I have done this swap on my 92 and it's not complicated everything is remove from f250 and install in c350 you will have to use the truck dash ,some will say you don't but if your looking for a factory Looking job do it . Do not try just to remove wiring it is more work then removing dash as a assembly, you will be surprised how everything changes out so easily :icon_ford:

Polarburg
04-08-2015, 08:25 AM
Did you have it running in the donor ? I like 68 question why a ps should need a rebuild at 150k unless it had straight water in coolant system and froze . I have done this swap on my 92 and it's not complicated everything is remove from f250 and install in c350 you will have to use the truck dash ,some will say you don't but if your looking for a factory Looking job do it . Do not try just to remove wiring it is more work then removing dash as a assembly, you will be surprised how everything changes out so easily :icon_ford:

natterre
04-10-2015, 10:02 PM
Well I ran into the first hurdle. When I pulled off the heads to inspect why the water was in the oil, I found that one of the glow plugs was broken off (in the #6 cylinder) and had bounced around inside of the cylinder for a while. So it appears that the pistons will have to come out and then at least the cylinder walls will be re-honed. So much for it not needing a rebuild...

Bronco Biff
04-11-2015, 01:40 PM
Ouch!!

68Mercury250Ranger
04-11-2015, 10:05 PM
how does the head look and the valves in #6 ??:doh0715:

natterre
04-12-2015, 12:53 AM
Good question about the head and valves. This is where it gets weird. I checked out the head and the valves look perfect and there are no marks at all on the head from any kind of damage. It almost looks like they tried to fix this and replaced the heads (or had some great head work done) and put it back together with the bad piston. The glow plug pieces were not present. When the put the heads back on, the water leak was not fixed (because it was not a head gasket failure). Both the timing cover and the oil cooler were leaking and causing the problems. After rotating the engine the damaged piston was also not coming all the way up to top dead center.... On no, maybe a bent rod... sure enough. The pictures speak for them selves. However, the cylinder walls don't look to bad. All other seven are mirror finish with the cross hatch marks still in place, but the damaged one looks like it might recover with a little honing. We shall see... The crank shaft bearings are perfect, and none of the connecting rods had spun a bearing.

skip2100
04-12-2015, 03:32 AM
very similar to water hammer

68Mercury250Ranger
04-13-2015, 12:48 AM
OUCH:shocked


head/heads have been replaced for sure, that much damage to the piston would have head/valve damage. might want to get the crank measured and make sure its still ok. takes a lot of pressure to bend those rods.

BigOldBlueC350
04-13-2015, 03:08 AM
I think at this point I would look for used replacement motor !

GL !

Traveler
04-13-2015, 11:00 AM
hehe. I have thrown a new rod in and used the old piston with no ill effects,
just sayin.

That is not bad at all, Hone job, rings, one piston, rod. Easy fix.

68Mercury250Ranger
04-14-2015, 01:44 AM
I'm hoping that you mean you put in a good used rod AND piston? that #6 piston was ashtray worthy ..................................maybe

broken 7.3 powerstroke just sounds like the fiction section?:bigok:

Traveler
04-14-2015, 09:50 AM
I did it on an IDI.
Can't see the piston close enough to tell if it could be used or not. But look it was running like that.

You have to put perspective on everything. How many miles are you really going to put on it?
50K throw anything in there it will work.
100K yeah probably check the crank, new piston and rod. Take your time setting it up. Ring the rest of the cylinders.
200K+ Bore them all, full on overhaul.

68Mercury250Ranger
04-15-2015, 01:23 AM
you sir are a very brave man. :bigok::drkbd:

BJOHNSON22
04-15-2015, 11:35 AM
Has anyone done a gas to diesel swap? I know there are many other forum sites where swaps have been discussed, but I'm new to 4DB and wanted to see if anyone on here had done one already. I picked up a 1990 C350 last fall for $2300 with a freshly rebuilt 460, but also have a p-pumped 12 valve cummins that I got a really good deal. Anyone have any tips or links from previous builds?

Polarburg
04-16-2015, 05:34 AM
Has anyone done a gas to diesel swap? I know there are many other forum sites where swaps have been discussed, but I'm new to 4DB and wanted to see if anyone on here had done one already. I picked up a 1990 C350 last fall for $2300 with a freshly rebuilt 460, but also have a p-pumped 12 valve cummins that I got a really good deal. Anyone have any tips or links from previous builds?

I've done it on my 92 460 to powerstroke the 90 is going to be harder .the dash and brace for column is different firewall plug , and other things, can be done . A cummins swap would far easier in the form of more fabrication instead of wiring and control. But is not cheap to do with cost of trans controller ,engine mounts and other things to make that work

BJOHNSON22
04-16-2015, 10:00 AM
It's looking more and more like i need to just halt progress on my 90 and start looking for a 92+. Not saying i'm giving up just yet, but the 92+ seem to be much easier and have more parts available for upgrades.

natterre
05-13-2015, 11:07 PM
Ok, so here is the latest news. I cleaned up the cylinders, and the damaged one had some pretty deep gouges in the wall, so I decided to have it machined. The cylinders were all bored 0.030" over and I obtained some oversized pistons to match. The whole thing was ready to go back together, and then I noticed that the cam shaft also has pitting on several of the lobes. I measured it and found the pits to be anywhere from 0.001" to 0.006" deep. So I guess I will be waiting until I procure a new camshaft. I just can't justify putting this thing back together after all of the work that was done to the bottom end. The good news, is the crank shaft is perfect (no cracks - no bends).

15619

natterre
06-05-2015, 04:35 PM
Well I pulled out the IDI and the dash. What a mess! I am not looking forward to sorting out the wiring issues. The new dash has many connectors that are taped up and some modules or control boxes are missing. I am not sure but think the best way to proceed is to put it all back together and then crank it up and see what happens. Then I can trouble shoot all of the items that don't work. All of the centurion modifications sure make pulling the dash difficult. My current problem is the IDI and the DI have different bolt patterns on the flywheel/flex plates. I will get a new one coming and see if I can get the DI to fit in the hole and mount up to the E4OD. More updates as after I mess with the dash this afternoon.

natterre
06-07-2015, 08:14 PM
Minor set back. The IDI and the DI don't have the same bolt pattern on the crank shaft. I need to acquire a new flex plate and flex plate adapter before I will be able to proceed. On the flip side, I hooked up most of the wires in the vehicle. I still have some connectors that I don't go anywhere, but I need power to figure that out so the engine needs to go back in first. New flex plate and adapter should be here this week - then I will just need to find some more time to complete the conversion. :chili:

natterre
06-15-2015, 11:47 AM
For anyone else out there considering this type of swap here are a few things to consider: start with a donor vehicle. Make sure the donor vehicle is the same configuration you want to end up with (engine, tranny, electric windows, cruise control, etc), you will need the complete engine wiring harness, vehicle dash, everything under the hood, and front bumper. The idi and di have different bolt patterns on the flex plates and they are not interchangeable. The transmission to engine bolts are different lengths and different threads (the idi is English and the di is metric). The engine accessories will all need to come over (A/C compressor, power steering pump, alternator, etc). The A/C will need new fittings put on the rest A/C connection. Some power steering hours will also need to be swapped.

I don't know how much help this is to others but it would have been nice to know before I started. The new engine is in, but everything still needs to be hooked up. I am going to find another dash and engine wiring harness to install as I would like the factory cruise control buttons to work.

Polarburg
06-16-2015, 05:36 AM
For anyone else out there considering this type of swap here are a few things to consider: start with a donor vehicle. Make sure the donor vehicle is the same configuration you want to end up with (engine, tranny, electric windows, cruise control, etc), you will need the complete engine wiring harness, vehicle dash, everything under the hood, and front bumper. The idi and di have different bolt patterns on the flex plates and they are not interchangeable. The transmission to engine bolts are different lengths and different threads (the idi is English and the di is metric). The engine accessories will all need to come over (A/C compressor, power steering pump, alternator, etc). The A/C will need new fittings put on the rest A/C connection. Some power steering hours will also need to be swapped.

I don't know how much help this is to others but it would have been nice to know before I started. The new engine is in, but everything still needs to be hooked up. I am going to find another dash and engine wiring harness to install as I would like the factory cruise control buttons to work.
I did this a couple years back and had a donor , really just a swap over it will suck if you have to try to chace parts down . Some of the info I put up was lost when the site changed its host , if that's what it's called. The wiper motor needs to be from a 95 up ,has dif plug . And cruise will only work if Ecm has it

natterre
07-26-2015, 12:26 AM
Just an update: I took the block into a local (1 hour away) machine shop to have it looked at. I asked to have the block evaluated and then fixed if possible as well as magna-flux the crank. They looked over the engine and found no major problems with it (no sleeve required). They thought they could machine it out by going 0.020" over. They started the process and ended up having to go 0.030" over stock to get all of the marks out. They finished the work on it (cross-hatch looked great) and i purchased over-sized pistons from them along with two replacement rods that were bent. Crank came out perfect. After having the block back. I put it all back together and put it into the car 2-weeks ago today. Upon trying to start the engine (and test out all of the electrical swapping) I could not get a tachometer reading. I replaced the CPS and still no luck. I added water to the radiator and the engine hydro-locked upon trying to start it . Not happy.

I pulled it back out of the bronco and pulled it apart. Nothing visible for damage, or how the water was getting into the cylinder. So since I didn't have the heads looked at (just replaced all of valve stem seals - all valves looked real good and the heads didn't match the damage found on the piston) and assuming there to be a crack in the heads somewhere, I purchased an new pair of heads and put the engine back together. Yesterday I put it back into the vehicle and tried once again to start it. Same Problem Hydro-Locked! After debating about lighting it on fire an claiming the insurance, I pulled out the engine again this morning. The block has been gone through and so have the heads. No water gets into the engine until I fill up the reservoir and then immediately the engine locks up (this time I cranked it on Ether until it lit and then shut it off - No mechanical problems). I think it has to be a problem with the block (or both sets of heads). Tomorrow I will call the shop that did the work on the block and see how they plan to address my problem. I am really getting frustrated at the problems. I am now on 7 weeks of no running bronco and starting to get annoyed at the grief.

To top it all off, I could never get the rpms to indicate. I put two different CPS in the vehicle and never got a reading on the Tach. After much re-search I started going through all of the continuity on the circuits. Come to find out - all three wires to the CPS were twisted and broken off where the wiring to the CPS splits from the main engine wiring harness on the top of the engine under the snake skin. I think repairing these wires will fix the no-rpms and no-start condition in the engine. I just hope that the machine shop is willing to stand behind their work on the block. I had really heard a lot of good from multiple sources before I chose this shop. It is Larry's Engine and Marine in Tucson. Stay tuned for progress.

natterre
07-26-2015, 06:27 PM
Also anyone know where I might find a new dipstick and dipstick tube for an E4OD that will be out of the way of the downpipe from the 7.3 turbo? I could bend the one I have but it would be much easier to find the correct one, but I don't know where to look.

natterre
07-28-2015, 10:42 PM
Upon dis-assembly I found the #4 cylinder wall to have a small pin-hole in the side. This is the cause of the coolant inside the cylinder. The real question is how? Was it put there during the machining? I doubt it. Probably had a thin wall due to some previous cavitation on the cylinder wall and during an intake stroke broke loose. Just a guess. We shall see how helpful the machine shop is.

15721

Traveler
07-29-2015, 08:18 AM
I bent my dip stick tube so not much help, BUT looking at a pick and pull one day I saw a van that had an extension that might have worked really well. Just a thought and something you might want to google.

That pit had to come from cavitation. That is too bad. So it will need one sleeve and do they have anyway to check the others for thing spots? Machining it just made it too thin. That is a big hole.
Sorry, you just cannot catch a break here.

natterre
08-13-2015, 09:46 PM
Ok, one new cylinder sleeve and everything is back together. I put it all back in the vehicle and it fired up just fine. I have ran it back and forth down the street a few times to see how it works. So far so good. There still some problems but it doesn't appear to be anything major. The third break light has no power (but the two white lights do), the ABS light is on (probably the connection lacking on the master cylinder), oil gauge is maxed out - swapped the oil gauge out with the old one and that fixed the problem, and at higher rpms (greater than 2,000) the engine misses intermittently. I think this is probably due to the bad connections on the valve cover gasket. Two of the four pigtails have broken plastic detents on them. I am going to start by replacing the pig tails and see if that fixes the problem. I already swapped out the IDM (with a spare I had) and that didn't fix it. I am thinking that at higher rpms the poor connection may cause the issues. Also the transmission O/D light flashes on and off. One of the transmission cooler lines was pinched (not totally, but bad enough) and I will replace that line and see if it clears up. But So far So good. I am pretty happy with the outcome! All other interior wiring seems functional. Windows, locks, rear window, rear blower for the A/C. It all seems good.

natterre
08-24-2015, 11:01 PM
Well I just can't seem to figure out this issue. The car starts right up, and runs smooth. It idles great, but when the rpms increase to over 1,500 then there is an intermittent missing present. I have swapped out the IDM, the CPS (three times), the ECM, the TPS and re-wired the wiring harness on the engine. I have checked and rechecked the ECM ground. I just can't seem to figure out why the engine misses at higher rpms. I took it to a local shop and asked them to help diagnose it, but they couldn't figure it out and told me to take it back to Ford (60 miles away). I really don't want to drive the vehicle when it acts like this, but I am out of ideas. Any thoughts?

68Mercury250Ranger
08-25-2015, 02:12 AM
still sounds like a crank sensor issue, losing signal at higher rpm. have you had a goodlok at the connections in harness at the crank sensor? had a new sensor turn out bad once ..... but only once!

what did the machine shop say about having 7 pistons at .030 and 1 at standard bore? or did they mention that after the new dry sleeve was installed? I have a motherload of 7.3 powerstrokes in my collection, cores aren't worth anything! boring one out .030 sounds crazyexpensive. I've torn these motors apart with over 800,000 km on them and all they need is a hone and new rings & bearings.

my 2003 E350 van is worked hard even when I'm not towing , the 7.3 powerstroke is one tough beast if you service it .

Traveler
08-25-2015, 07:43 AM
CPS is a good idea, did you swap out the under valve cover harnesses? You were talking about it.

Otherwise, what has been done to the injectors?

natterre
08-25-2015, 08:34 AM
Great ideas. I did swap out the valve cover gaskets and replaced the pigtails that connect to the valve cover gaskets. I also checked the wiring to the CPS. It was damaged and spliced back together. I cut out the spliced and soldered the wires back together but no change.

As for the sleeve, it was also bored to 0.030" over as well.

The injectors are new, so is the fuel pump, the oil pump and the high pressure oil pump. I reused the old engine wiring harness though. Maybe it still has a problem or the ECM had a bad ground...

Traveler
08-25-2015, 01:44 PM
Is it missing above 1,500 rpm loaded or just free revving?

natterre
08-25-2015, 03:16 PM
Both under load and while on park. The load doesn't seem to affect it just the rpm. I have noticed that when it misses the rpms drop. I am not sure but think somehow the CPS has to be in the problem somehow. I don't think the rpms would change by 2-300 with a miss out two but that is how much the tachometer will move... Sometimes.

Polarburg
08-31-2015, 04:56 PM
Have you checked the ohmn values from IDM to injectors . had a issue similar last year on a 550 . Under higher rpms the enging would drop a injector , witch drops the rpm slightly . If the resistance is out of range the engine harness from square connector to valve covers need to be replaced . Common on engines with oil and fuel leaks as it softens insulation on wire .:icon_ford:

natterre
08-31-2015, 05:59 PM
That is a great idea. I only checked the continuity of the wires now the resistance. What is a typical range for the wires?

Polarburg
08-31-2015, 08:34 PM
That is a great idea. I only checked the continuity of the wires now the resistance. What is a typical range for the wires?

I'll find test procedure with acceptable range tomorrow at work and take a picture

Polarburg
09-01-2015, 01:28 PM
I'll find test procedure with acceptable range tomorrow at work and take a picture

Hope this helps15726

natterre
09-02-2015, 09:41 PM
Man, that is super helpful. Thanks!

I went out and performed all of the tests required, and one step of the #1 test failed. The #23 to #19 circuit was 5.6 ohms and all of the other circuits (in test #1) were 2.8-2.9 ohms. That means A problem in that cuircut. In other words, at higher rpms the ecm is dropping out the #6 cylinder. I pulled off the wiring harness and tested the ohms of the wires to that valve cover gasket and the wires were fine. When I ran the ohms of the female side of the connector (to the injectors) the #6 injector is showing 5.6 ohms and the #8 is showing 2.8 ohms. That being said I am thinking that either it is a bad valve cover gasket (new) or it is a bad electronic module on the injector (also new). I need to pull the valve cover off and put the ohm meter on the injector to be sure where the problem lies, but I am leaning toward the injector (although I don't know why).

Thanks for the help. I will be out of town this weekend, but I will get this sorted out. Again, Thanks a million. What book did you find this incredibly helpful procedure? :chili:

Polarburg
09-08-2015, 06:13 AM
It came with some injectors I bought , I have seen engine harness failure cause injectors fail